[SailfishDevel] Sailfish OS Open Source Community Collaboration Meeting 2nd of June 2016
Tone Kastlunger
users.giulietta at gmail.com
Thu Jun 2 12:42:23 UTC 2016
In a distributed fashion it may make sense;
speaking of which, doesn't tracker implement a graph db?
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Andrew Branson <sfdevlist at andrewbranson.net>
wrote:
> I'm missing how your contacts can be linked as a graph on your phone. I
> assumed it was about which of your friends know each other, but that isn't
> relevant information on the client side. I don't think it's even easily
> available in the main social networks.
>
> Andy
>
> On 02/06/2016 2:34pm, Tone Kastlunger wrote:
>
>> On the RDBMS vs Graph DB's discussion, the point Peter is making is a
>> very solid one;
>> the purpouse of the contacts app is to mange contacts; hence how they
>> are connected;
>> if relying on a Graph DB provides a simpler implementation (in terms of
>> raw lines of code I mean) in upper implementation levels,
>> whilst helping in keeping data consistency in a flawless and hassle-free
>> way (which SQL can help with only up to a certain extent),
>> well it definitely sounds too good to be true (at least from what I
>> understood):
>> I'd agree with Neo4J on a phone being somewhat of an overkill (same as
>> having Postgres for instance); I'd wonder if there are embedded versions
>> of it?
>> I'd say especially within Jolla's Social/Address book/mail/calendar
>> contacts management peculiarities, plus the dual SFOS/Android world, it
>> requires a
>> rock-solid contact management system, I'd assume.
>>
>> tk
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Andrew Branson
>> <sfdevlist at andrewbranson.net <mailto:sfdevlist at andrewbranson.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> RDBMSes are not very good at graphs, or trees, or any other data
>> structure that requires variable traversal steps in queries. I don't
>> think we have that here though. Those social networks only have
>> graphs when they're integrating your data with other people's, but
>> personally you just have your own address book and your own
>> calendars. Both of those consist of many instances of the same data
>> structures which need to be indexed, which is a good use of
>> relational databases.
>>
>> Your point about SQL being used out of habit is always pertinent
>> though. It's important to keep on top of the NoSQL options, as SQL
>> is definitely overused. I always find it very irritating when SQL is
>> used only for config storage, using tables with single rows and many
>> columns. Berkeley DB would be a good alternative for that. I don't
>> know if the graph DBs are ready yet though - Neo4J is very
>> interesting, but I would never run a Java server in a phone.
>>
>> While we're on the subject, I think the Nemo thumbnail DB is a
>> really good candidate for a NoSQL database. It's currently a huge
>> collection of tiny files that seems to take up way too much BTRFS
>> allocation, and I don't think as a collection of binary files it
>> would be a good match for SQLite.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>> On 02/06/2016 1:42pm, Peter Kovacs wrote:
>>
>> Well SQL is in my opinion good for grouping or conduct
>> calculations on
>> transactional data.
>> Updating, or adding / sorting is not is best discipline. It is
>> medicore
>> in my opinion.
>> On small sets of data as used in phones medicore performance is
>> still
>> quick. Phones are quite powerfull today.
>>
>> However the feature the DB should excel should be, in my eyes
>> social,
>> stuff. It is a phone after all, intended to maintain my social
>> life, or?
>>
>> And Facebook, amazon, google+ does not use relational databases.
>> They
>> use graph databases. So I wonder why this is not used on phones.
>> Neo4j
>> claims to outperform relational databases by a factor of 1000
>> when it
>> comes to relationships.
>>
>> I admit these softwares are very latest technology. And maybe not
>> as
>> robust as sqllite.
>> However I would love to have a contact app which knows that Mary
>> and Joe
>> are married live in the same place. And when I search for one of
>> the 2 I
>> get the shared information. And when I update one end the app
>> knows to
>> update the other one too.
>> Or it can store company hierarchies would help me in my business
>> life. I
>> am not good at memo these.
>>
>> Yes you can do that with sql. But I think it is easier more
>> naturally
>> done in a graph db.
>> No problem if any one does not agree. I plan to build this anyhow.
>>
>> I am quite unhappy with Google in that because they are not
>> doing this
>> for me ;)
>>
>> Btw Object DB is good at storing objects as the name suggests. It
>> is
>> even more far away from the requirements on a phone then
>> relational db
>> in my eyes.
>>
>> All the Best
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> Tone Kastlunger <users.giulietta at gmail.com
>> <mailto:users.giulietta at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:users.giulietta at gmail.com
>> <mailto:users.giulietta at gmail.com>>> schrieb am Do., 2. Juni
>> 2016, 11:13:
>>
>> Peter;
>> I'm curious, what brings you to the conclusion SQL (as in
>> relational
>> dbs) is not ideal for transactional functionality?
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 10:41 AM, Peter Kovacs
>> <leginee at gmail.com <mailto:leginee at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:leginee at gmail.com <mailto:leginee at gmail.com>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I would actually like to know why SQL stuff.
>> Datastructure types I am think of on the Phone are
>> relationships
>> (Facebook style) or transactional.
>> And both are not ideal to solve with relational dbs.
>>
>> I guess the Answer is because every one does it. But
>> that is not
>> really satisfactory. Would there be an interest to use
>> something else?
>>
>>
>> Tone Kastlunger <users.giulietta at gmail.com
>> <mailto:users.giulietta at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:users.giulietta at gmail.com
>>
>> <mailto:users.giulietta at gmail.com>>> schrieb am Do., 2. Juni
>> 2016, 09:33:
>>
>> Hi Chris;
>>
>>
>> >2) API to access Calendar data. Correct,
>> currently we
>> don't provide access to calendar API in Harbour.
>> The reason
>> is that we want to use QtOrganizer as the public
>> API, but to
>> do that we need to write a QtOrganizer engine
>> backend >for
>> mkcal (note that one already existed in QtMobility
>> days,
>> which is open source, so we can potentially adapt
>> that one
>> with relatively little effort. Help with that
>> effort would
>> be greatly appreciated). Eventually, I'd like to
>> develop a
>> >QtOrganizer backend directly in sqlite, for
>> performance
>> and maintainability reasons (mkcal has several
>> design and
>> implementation problems, in my opinion), at which
>> point
>> QtOrganizer can become the platform API (not just
>> the 3rd
>> >party API).
>>
>>
>> I guess the worload to push it all the way to
>> QtOrganizer
>> requires scratching the existing backend /
>> rewriting a big
>> part of the cal app?
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 5:06 AM, Chris Adams
>> <chris.adams at jolla.com
>> <mailto:chris.adams at jolla.com> <mailto:chris.adams at jolla.com
>>
>> <mailto:chris.adams at jolla.com>>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I will try to be at the meeting tonight, but I
>> cannot
>> promise (it's held at 11:30 pm in my timezone).
>>
>> A couple of the questions relate to areas I am
>> involved
>> with, so I'll try to provide some information
>> in case I
>> don't make it to the meeting. If you have any
>> follow up
>> questions or discussion, feel free to contact me
>> directly via email or on Freenode IRC (chriadam
>> is my nick).
>>
>> 1) Contact Note details. This is tracked
>> internally by
>> JB#14734. As you mentioned, it's supported in
>> the
>> backend, but not in the People app UI. It was
>> on going
>> to be part of the apps overhaul which was
>> planned prior
>> to the financial difficulties last year, and
>> since then
>> this has fallen off the radar. It requires
>> design
>> input, because you can have multiple Note
>> details in a
>> single contact. I've just pinged our lead
>> designer in
>> the bug report again, in case he can fit it in
>> sometime
>> soon.
>>
>> 2) API to access Calendar data. Correct,
>> currently we
>> don't provide access to calendar API in
>> Harbour. The
>> reason is that we want to use QtOrganizer as
>> the public
>> API, but to do that we need to write a
>> QtOrganizer
>> engine backend for mkcal (note that one already
>> existed
>> in QtMobility days, which is open source, so we
>> can
>> potentially adapt that one with relatively little
>> effort. Help with that effort would be greatly
>> appreciated). Eventually, I'd like to develop a
>> QtOrganizer backend directly in sqlite, for
>> performance
>> and maintainability reasons (mkcal has several
>> design
>> and implementation problems, in my opinion), at
>> which
>> point QtOrganizer can become the platform API
>> (not just
>> the 3rd party API).
>>
>> 3) Email app development. Yes, you're
>> absolutely right
>> that the Email application hasn't received much
>> development effort since Valerio unfortunately
>> left.
>> Yes, I would personally like to see it (along
>> with other
>> apps like Clock, Notes, and Calendar)
>> opensourced. No, I
>> don't know what the status of the opensourcing
>> discussions with the Board Of Directors is, so
>> I cannot
>> give a roadmap for that possibility. However,
>> the
>> "engine" of the email application is already
>> open source
>> (except for the Exchange/ActiveSync plugin) -
>> we use QMF
>> (Qt Messaging Framework) for email handling. See
>> https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/qmf and
>> https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/messagingframework
>> etc for that stuff. Speak to Matt Vogt (mvogt on
>> Freenode IRC) for code reviews etc.
>>
>> In general, the Sailfish OS wiki has been
>> updated with a
>> lot of information about the various software
>> components
>> which make up the Sailfish OS stack (including
>> links to
>> the open-source repositories), so you should be
>> able to
>> find most of the information you need to help
>> develop
>> these components, from reading
>> https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Core_Areas_and_APIs and the
>> drill-down links from that page.
>>
>> Finally, I don't know much about Bluetooth, but
>> I know
>> that we're looking at updating to Bluez 5 right
>> now
>> (development is currently ongoing to port the
>> Qt stack
>> across, possibly by using the KDE bluez-qt
>> wrappers), so
>> it's possible that the tethering issue will be
>> addressed
>> as part of that, with the new stack - but
>> again, that's
>> not my area so I might be incorrect.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* devel-bounces at lists.sailfishos.org
>> <mailto:devel-bounces at lists.sailfishos.org>
>> <mailto:devel-bounces at lists.sailfishos.org
>> <mailto:devel-bounces at lists.sailfishos.org>>
>> [devel-bounces at lists.sailfishos.org
>> <mailto:devel-bounces at lists.sailfishos.org>
>> <mailto:devel-bounces at lists.sailfishos.org
>> <mailto:devel-bounces at lists.sailfishos.org>>] on behalf
>> of James Noori [james.noori at jolla.com
>> <mailto:james.noori at jolla.com>
>> <mailto:james.noori at jolla.com
>> <mailto:james.noori at jolla.com>>]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 01, 2016 11:15 PM
>> *To:* devel at lists.sailfishos.org
>> <mailto:devel at lists.sailfishos.org>
>> <mailto:devel at lists.sailfishos.org
>> <mailto:devel at lists.sailfishos.org>>
>> *Subject:* [SailfishDevel] Sailfish OS Open
>> Source
>> Community Collaboration Meeting 2nd of June 2016
>>
>> Hi everyone!
>>
>> Following up last week’s postponed Community
>> collaboration meeting on IRC, this week’s
>> meeting is
>> going to be held at the agreed time and date,
>> 2/6/2016
>> at 13:30 UTC.
>>
>> Please see this link for your local time
>> (Redirects to
>> timeanddate.com <http://timeanddate.com> <http://timeanddate.com
>> >)
>>
>> :http://bit.ly/247PwwT
>>
>> <
>> http://redir.aspx?REF=g5j-y9bnU2VIldZnOnr8CS7-bSPOGw-1AMJwEvMljvQjLMD_gYrTCAFodHRwOi8vYml0Lmx5LzI0N1B3d1Q
>> .>
>>
>> Location: #mer-meeting on Freenode IRC
>>
>> Chairperson: Jaymzz
>>
>> Duration: Approximately 100 minutes.
>>
>> Thanks to everyone who has responded and added
>> topics on
>>
>> TJC:
>> https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/
>>
>> <
>> http://redir.aspx?REF=OlRBTW_rwoaCk_9FOorV7mZrXabeWUP7jnZySM69E7wjLMD_gYrTCAFodHRwczovL3RvZ2V0aGVyLmpvbGxhLmNvbS9xdWVzdGlvbi81NDE1Ny9zYWlsZmlzaG9zLW9wZW4tc291cmNlLWNvbGxhYm9yYXRpb24tbWVldGluZy1wbGFubmluZy8
>> .>
>>
>> Proposed topics:
>>
>> -Intro (5min)
>>
>> -Bluetooth tethering - status of the fix (20min)
>>
>> -2016 roadmap (15min)
>>
>> -Show notes of contact (opensource contact
>> app?) (15 min)
>>
>> -API to access calendar (15 min)
>>
>> -Email app development (15 min)
>>
>> - Requesting things to be added to mer-tools
>> repo (5 min)
>>
>> - General Discussion (5-10 min)
>>
>> Please familiarize yourself with the topics
>> before the
>> meeting, as well
>>
>> as the common Meetbot commands
>> https://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
>>
>> <
>> http://redir.aspx?REF=9bflfCySOf4l8VxPhhLe4rl_8CX0V51Eghusn5jTRNIjLMD_gYrTCAFodHRwczovL3dpa2kuZGViaWFuLm9yZy9NZWV0Qm90
>> >
>> (it's
>>
>>
>> used for meeting management and logging)
>>
>> Best regards,
>> James Noori, Community Manager at Jolla
>>
>>
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