[SailfishDevel] Sailfish OS Open Source Community Collaboration Meeting 2nd of June 2016

Andrew Branson sfdevlist at andrewbranson.net
Thu Jun 2 12:40:08 UTC 2016


I'm missing how your contacts can be linked as a graph on your phone. I 
assumed it was about which of your friends know each other, but that 
isn't relevant information on the client side. I don't think it's even 
easily available in the main social networks.

Andy

On 02/06/2016 2:34pm, Tone Kastlunger wrote:
> On the RDBMS vs Graph DB's discussion, the point Peter is making is a
> very solid one;
> the purpouse of the contacts app is to mange contacts; hence how they
> are connected;
> if relying on a Graph DB provides a simpler implementation (in terms of
> raw lines of code I mean) in upper implementation levels,
> whilst helping in keeping data consistency in a flawless and hassle-free
> way (which SQL can help with only up to a certain extent),
> well it definitely sounds too good to be true (at least from what I
> understood):
> I'd agree with Neo4J on a phone being somewhat of an overkill (same as
> having Postgres for instance); I'd wonder if there are embedded versions
> of it?
> I'd say especially within Jolla's Social/Address book/mail/calendar
> contacts management peculiarities, plus the dual SFOS/Android world, it
> requires a
> rock-solid contact management system, I'd assume.
>
> tk
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Andrew Branson
> <sfdevlist at andrewbranson.net <mailto:sfdevlist at andrewbranson.net>> wrote:
>
>     Hi!
>
>     RDBMSes are not very good at graphs, or trees, or any other data
>     structure that requires variable traversal steps in queries. I don't
>     think we have that here though. Those social networks only have
>     graphs when they're integrating your data with other people's, but
>     personally you just have your own address book and your own
>     calendars. Both of those consist of many instances of the same data
>     structures which need to be indexed, which is a good use of
>     relational databases.
>
>     Your point about SQL being used out of habit is always pertinent
>     though. It's important to keep on top of the NoSQL options, as SQL
>     is definitely overused. I always find it very irritating when SQL is
>     used only for config storage, using tables with single rows and many
>     columns. Berkeley DB would be a good alternative for that. I don't
>     know if the graph DBs are ready yet though - Neo4J is very
>     interesting, but I would never run a Java server in a phone.
>
>     While we're on the subject, I think the Nemo thumbnail DB is a
>     really good candidate for a NoSQL database. It's currently a huge
>     collection of tiny files that seems to take up way too much BTRFS
>     allocation, and I don't think as a collection of binary files it
>     would be a good match for SQLite.
>
>     Andy
>
>
>     On 02/06/2016 1:42pm, Peter Kovacs wrote:
>
>         Well SQL is in my opinion good for grouping or conduct
>         calculations on
>         transactional data.
>         Updating, or adding / sorting is not is best discipline. It is
>         medicore
>         in my opinion.
>         On small sets of data as used in phones medicore performance is
>         still
>         quick. Phones are quite powerfull today.
>
>         However the feature the DB should excel should be, in my eyes
>         social,
>         stuff. It is a phone after all, intended to maintain my social
>         life, or?
>
>         And Facebook, amazon, google+ does not use relational databases.
>         They
>         use graph databases. So I wonder why this is not used on phones.
>         Neo4j
>         claims to outperform relational databases by a factor of 1000
>         when it
>         comes to relationships.
>
>         I admit these softwares are very latest technology. And maybe not as
>         robust as sqllite.
>         However I would love to have a contact app which knows that Mary
>         and Joe
>         are married live in the same place. And when I search for one of
>         the 2 I
>         get the shared information. And when I update one end the app
>         knows to
>         update the other one too.
>         Or it can store company hierarchies would help me in my business
>         life. I
>         am not good at memo these.
>
>         Yes you can do that with sql. But I think it is easier more
>         naturally
>         done in a graph db.
>         No problem if any one does not agree. I plan to build this anyhow.
>
>         I am quite unhappy with Google in that because they are not
>         doing this
>         for me ;)
>
>         Btw Object DB is good at storing objects as the name suggests. It is
>         even more far away from the requirements on a phone then
>         relational db
>         in my eyes.
>
>         All the Best
>         Peter
>
>
>         Tone Kastlunger <users.giulietta at gmail.com
>         <mailto:users.giulietta at gmail.com>
>         <mailto:users.giulietta at gmail.com
>         <mailto:users.giulietta at gmail.com>>> schrieb am Do., 2. Juni
>         2016, 11:13:
>
>              Peter;
>              I'm curious, what brings you to the conclusion SQL (as in
>         relational
>              dbs) is not ideal for transactional functionality?
>
>              On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 10:41 AM, Peter Kovacs
>         <leginee at gmail.com <mailto:leginee at gmail.com>
>              <mailto:leginee at gmail.com <mailto:leginee at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
>                  I would actually like to know why SQL stuff.
>                  Datastructure types I am think of on the Phone are
>         relationships
>                  (Facebook style) or transactional.
>                  And both are not ideal to solve with relational dbs.
>
>                  I guess the Answer is because every one does it. But
>         that is not
>                  really satisfactory.  Would there be an interest to use
>                  something else?
>
>
>                  Tone Kastlunger <users.giulietta at gmail.com
>         <mailto:users.giulietta at gmail.com>
>                  <mailto:users.giulietta at gmail.com
>         <mailto:users.giulietta at gmail.com>>> schrieb am Do., 2. Juni
>                  2016, 09:33:
>
>                      Hi Chris;
>
>
>                       >2) API to access Calendar data.  Correct,
>         currently we
>                      don't provide access to calendar API in Harbour.
>         The reason
>                      is that we want to use QtOrganizer as the public
>         API, but to
>                      do that we need to write a QtOrganizer engine
>         backend >for
>                      mkcal (note that one already existed in QtMobility
>         days,
>                      which is open source, so we can potentially adapt
>         that one
>                      with relatively little effort.  Help with that
>         effort would
>                      be greatly appreciated).  Eventually, I'd like to
>         develop a
>                       >QtOrganizer backend directly in sqlite, for
>         performance
>                      and maintainability reasons (mkcal has several
>         design and
>                      implementation problems, in my opinion), at which point
>                      QtOrganizer can become the platform API (not just
>         the 3rd
>                       >party API).
>
>
>                      I guess the worload to push it all the way to
>         QtOrganizer
>                      requires scratching the existing backend /
>         rewriting a big
>                      part of the cal app?
>
>                      On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 5:06 AM, Chris Adams
>                      <chris.adams at jolla.com
>         <mailto:chris.adams at jolla.com> <mailto:chris.adams at jolla.com
>         <mailto:chris.adams at jolla.com>>> wrote:
>
>                          Hi everyone,
>
>                          I will try to be at the meeting tonight, but I
>         cannot
>                          promise (it's held at 11:30 pm in my timezone).
>
>                          A couple of the questions relate to areas I am
>         involved
>                          with, so I'll try to provide some information
>         in case I
>                          don't make it to the meeting.  If you have any
>         follow up
>                          questions or discussion, feel free to contact me
>                          directly via email or on Freenode IRC (chriadam
>         is my nick).
>
>                          1) Contact Note details.  This is tracked
>         internally by
>                          JB#14734.  As you mentioned, it's supported in the
>                          backend, but not in the People app UI.  It was
>         on going
>                          to be part of the apps overhaul which was
>         planned prior
>                          to the financial difficulties last year, and
>         since then
>                          this has fallen off the radar.  It requires design
>                          input, because you can have multiple Note
>         details in a
>                          single contact.  I've just pinged our lead
>         designer in
>                          the bug report again, in case he can fit it in
>         sometime
>                          soon.
>
>                          2) API to access Calendar data.  Correct,
>         currently we
>                          don't provide access to calendar API in
>         Harbour.  The
>                          reason is that we want to use QtOrganizer as
>         the public
>                          API, but to do that we need to write a QtOrganizer
>                          engine backend for mkcal (note that one already
>         existed
>                          in QtMobility days, which is open source, so we can
>                          potentially adapt that one with relatively little
>                          effort.  Help with that effort would be greatly
>                          appreciated).  Eventually, I'd like to develop a
>                          QtOrganizer backend directly in sqlite, for
>         performance
>                          and maintainability reasons (mkcal has several
>         design
>                          and implementation problems, in my opinion), at
>         which
>                          point QtOrganizer can become the platform API
>         (not just
>                          the 3rd party API).
>
>                          3) Email app development.  Yes, you're
>         absolutely right
>                          that the Email application hasn't received much
>                          development effort since Valerio unfortunately
>         left.
>                          Yes, I would personally like to see it (along
>         with other
>                          apps like Clock, Notes, and Calendar)
>         opensourced. No, I
>                          don't know what the status of the opensourcing
>                          discussions with the Board Of Directors is, so
>         I cannot
>                          give a roadmap for that possibility.  However, the
>                          "engine" of the email application is already
>         open source
>                          (except for the Exchange/ActiveSync plugin) -
>         we use QMF
>                          (Qt Messaging Framework) for email handling.  See
>         https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/qmf and
>         https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/messagingframework
>                          etc for that stuff.  Speak to Matt Vogt (mvogt on
>                          Freenode IRC) for code reviews etc.
>
>                          In general, the Sailfish OS wiki has been
>         updated with a
>                          lot of information about the various software
>         components
>                          which make up the Sailfish OS stack (including
>         links to
>                          the open-source repositories), so you should be
>         able to
>                          find most of the information you need to help
>         develop
>                          these components, from reading
>         https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Core_Areas_and_APIs and the
>                          drill-down links from that page.
>
>                          Finally, I don't know much about Bluetooth, but
>         I know
>                          that we're looking at updating to Bluez 5 right now
>                          (development is currently ongoing to port the
>         Qt stack
>                          across, possibly by using the KDE bluez-qt
>         wrappers), so
>                          it's possible that the tethering issue will be
>         addressed
>                          as part of that, with the new stack - but
>         again, that's
>                          not my area so I might be incorrect.
>
>                          Cheers,
>                          Chris.
>
>
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                          *From:* devel-bounces at lists.sailfishos.org
>         <mailto:devel-bounces at lists.sailfishos.org>
>                          <mailto:devel-bounces at lists.sailfishos.org
>         <mailto:devel-bounces at lists.sailfishos.org>>
>                          [devel-bounces at lists.sailfishos.org
>         <mailto:devel-bounces at lists.sailfishos.org>
>                          <mailto:devel-bounces at lists.sailfishos.org
>         <mailto:devel-bounces at lists.sailfishos.org>>] on behalf
>                          of James Noori [james.noori at jolla.com
>         <mailto:james.noori at jolla.com>
>                          <mailto:james.noori at jolla.com
>         <mailto:james.noori at jolla.com>>]
>                          *Sent:* Wednesday, June 01, 2016 11:15 PM
>                          *To:* devel at lists.sailfishos.org
>         <mailto:devel at lists.sailfishos.org>
>                          <mailto:devel at lists.sailfishos.org
>         <mailto:devel at lists.sailfishos.org>>
>                          *Subject:* [SailfishDevel] Sailfish OS Open Source
>                          Community Collaboration Meeting 2nd of June 2016
>
>                          Hi everyone!
>
>                          Following up last week’s postponed Community
>                          collaboration meeting on IRC, this week’s
>         meeting is
>                          going to be held at the agreed time and date,
>         2/6/2016
>                          at 13:30 UTC.
>
>                          Please see this link for your local time
>         (Redirects to
>         timeanddate.com <http://timeanddate.com> <http://timeanddate.com>)
>                          :http://bit.ly/247PwwT
>
>         <http://redir.aspx?REF=g5j-y9bnU2VIldZnOnr8CS7-bSPOGw-1AMJwEvMljvQjLMD_gYrTCAFodHRwOi8vYml0Lmx5LzI0N1B3d1Q.>
>
>                          Location: #mer-meeting on Freenode IRC
>
>                          Chairperson: Jaymzz
>
>                          Duration: Approximately 100 minutes.
>
>                          Thanks to everyone who has responded and added
>         topics on
>
>         TJC:https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/
>
>         <http://redir.aspx?REF=OlRBTW_rwoaCk_9FOorV7mZrXabeWUP7jnZySM69E7wjLMD_gYrTCAFodHRwczovL3RvZ2V0aGVyLmpvbGxhLmNvbS9xdWVzdGlvbi81NDE1Ny9zYWlsZmlzaG9zLW9wZW4tc291cmNlLWNvbGxhYm9yYXRpb24tbWVldGluZy1wbGFubmluZy8.>
>
>                          Proposed topics:
>
>                          -Intro (5min)
>
>                          -Bluetooth tethering - status of the fix (20min)
>
>                          -2016 roadmap (15min)
>
>                          -Show notes of contact (opensource contact
>         app?) (15 min)
>
>                          -API to access calendar (15 min)
>
>                          -Email app development (15 min)
>
>                          - Requesting things to be added to mer-tools
>         repo (5 min)
>
>                          - General Discussion (5-10 min)
>
>                          Please familiarize yourself with the topics
>         before the
>                          meeting, as well
>
>                          as the common Meetbot commands
>         https://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
>
>         <http://redir.aspx?REF=9bflfCySOf4l8VxPhhLe4rl_8CX0V51Eghusn5jTRNIjLMD_gYrTCAFodHRwczovL3dpa2kuZGViaWFuLm9yZy9NZWV0Qm90>
>         (it's
>
>
>                          used for meeting management and logging)
>
>                          Best regards,
>                          James Noori, Community Manager at Jolla
>
>
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