<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hello, everyone!</div><div>Talking about flatpak: there's even a bit aggressive criticism about it -- <a href="http://flatkill.org/">http://flatkill.org/</a></div><div>I am personally not against this technology completely, but probably more into making more of an effort to provide better system side libraries.</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">пн, 11 февр. 2019 г. в 00:16, Martin Kolman <<a href="mailto:martin.kolman@gmail.com">martin.kolman@gmail.com</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_-2905676817824756122smartTemplate4-quoteHeader">Sun, 10 Feb 2019 23:05:28
+0200 E.s. Rosenberg
<a class="gmail-m_-2905676817824756122moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:es.rosenberg+sailfishos.org@gmail.com" target="_blank"><es.rosenberg+sailfishos.org@gmail.com></a>:</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Flatpak would make our phones so much more insecure -
instead of Jolla updating bad/insecure libraries (which also
happens at a pace that leaves to be desired) you become
dependent on the devs of the application you are using doing
that.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I don't think this is correct. Unlike for example App image where
developers AFAIK *do* have to bundle everything, Flatpak has a
concept of shared application runtimes. As long an application
uses sensitive libraries (mainly crypto related) from the runtime,
it's not really different from the current system with shared
system libraries - as long as the runtime is being properly
maintained.</p>
<p>Also both main app distribution channels in Sailfish OS are
taking binary RPMs only and there is nothing really preventing
developers from bundling about anything already.<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Since Jolla tries to have one of its' claims to fame be
security it seems that flatpak support should be just about
the last thing they should support.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Looks like the Purism Librem 5 open hardware phone project aims
to use Flatpaks for third party application distribution:</p>
<p><a class="gmail-m_-2905676817824756122moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Purism-PureOS-Store-Flatpaks" target="_blank">https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Purism-PureOS-Store-Flatpaks</a></p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just my 2c<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op zo 10 feb. 2019 om 22:56
schreef Martin Kolman <<a href="mailto:martin.kolman@gmail.com" target="_blank">martin.kolman@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_-2905676817824756122gmail-m_5956534896380797456smartTemplate4-quoteHeader">Sun,
10 Feb 2019 09:56:06 +0200 Rinigus <a class="gmail-m_-2905676817824756122gmail-m_5956534896380797456moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rinigus.git@gmail.com" target="_blank"><rinigus.git@gmail.com></a>:</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Morning,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">suggestion
to consider Qt 5.12 in /opt comes from the
following:</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">*
newer web engine</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">*
we can use and contribute to the code written for
Plasma with its Kirigami</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">It
will not bring native new applications, we don't
have Silica for it. However, I personally think it
makes more sense to use and help out with the
development of Linux-based solutions than to use
Android-provided web browsers through SFOS Android
compatibility layer.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">This
would not to be intended to be installed in /usr
and having platform supporting multiple Qt
versions at once. I have no idea whether its
possible and no desire to get into messing up the
system layer.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Dmitriy: I don't know
whether you can mix different Qt versions in the
same application. In this respect, yes, you could
probably ship Qt 512 stack fully, but would
probably have to stay away from the
system-provided Qt.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Leszek: fragmentation is
to be considered, indeed. But, as far as I
understood, it makes sense to develop browser
against the last version of Qt. In some aspect,
using Qt59 on SFOS contributes to fragmentation in
a way that we, on SFOS, will be using the version
that is slowly phased out already. At present,
Kirigami is developed using Qt512, with Qt511
version having at least one bug that will never be
fixed. Not sure whether Kirigami runs against
Qt59. So, if we would like to run Kirigami apps,
Qt 5.12 is most probably needed.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I hope eventually support for using Flatpak for package
distribution is added to Sailfish OS, as that would make
it possible to decouple the "system" Qt version from the
"application" Qt version. Updating the system version
would not longer risk breakage in third party applications
and could be done on it's own, likely slower, pace. On the
other hand updating the "application" Qt would mean just
releasing a new Flatpak runtime with the updated Qt
version. Old application would continue working with old
runtime/-s while new apps would be able to use all the new
goodies available via the new runtime. IIRC this is
already being done for Qt on the desktop via the Flatpak
runtimes maintained by the KDE project.</p>
<p>Of course there are some trade-offs and things to
consider - you would have to, in some capacity, maintain
multiple versions of Qt and system libraries in parallel.
On the other hand, each Qt version would be either a
"system" only one or "application" one. Not one that needs
to be perfect or else both the system and apps will stop
working. This could help to reduce the maintenance burden
somewhat.<br>
</p>
<p>Also, even if it would be nice to keep all older runtimes
around so that all old (and likely abandoned) apps
continue working, it would be likely prudent to stop
maintaining old runtimes after a while to keep the
maintenance burden reasonable.</p>
<p>There is also a question if this is something that
community can at least start or Jolla involvement is
needed. As already mentioned in the thread, due to Silica
still being closed source a community only Flatpak effort
likely could not support running Silica applications. A
Jolla provided runtime - or open source Silica - would be
needed for that.<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"> <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Cheers,</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Rinigus</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 10, 2019
at 8:55 AM Dmitriy Purgin <<a href="mailto:dpurgin@gmail.com" target="_blank">dpurgin@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi all, <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>if there are some parts of the newer Qt you
need in your app, you can always compile it
yourself, link your app against the newer version
and ship these libraries with your app.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers</div>
<div>Dmitriy<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Feb 9,
2019 at 6:44 PM rinigus <<a href="mailto:rinigus.git@gmail.com" target="_blank">rinigus.git@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Hi,</span>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">sounds like there
are porting and licensing issues on the way
of getting qt 5.9 for SFOS (see logs from
the last #mer-meeting). Its all
understandable, but it would be great to get
a way forward. Not sure whether it has been
considered by others and I wonder whether we
can make a separate Qt 5.12 packages for
/opt/qt512?</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">From a quick test,
it is possible to run non-silica
applications as well (tested with qmlscene
and QML with plain Window). In that test,
even keyboard worked as expected. Look was
non-native, but let it be for now.</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">So, I wonder,
whether its possible to get Qt 5.12 compiled
with /opt/qt512 prefix and then use it for
development using the latest libs (new web
browser?) and collaborate with other mobile
Linux'es out there. As far as I remember,
Wayland was rather old and, maybe, it will
preclude Qt 5.12 compilation. @mal, though,
had a newer version around and it may serve
a purpose for such project. Is there
anything else that should be considered? </span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Cheers,</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Rinigus</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">PS: Please consider
it as request-for-comment and not as any
kind of statement nor call-for-action :)</span></div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list<br>
To unsubscribe, please send a mail to <a href="mailto:devel-unsubscribe@lists.sailfishos.org" target="_blank">devel-unsubscribe@lists.sailfishos.org</a></blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list<br>
To unsubscribe, please send a mail to <a href="mailto:devel-unsubscribe@lists.sailfishos.org" target="_blank">devel-unsubscribe@lists.sailfishos.org</a></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="gmail-m_-2905676817824756122gmail-m_5956534896380797456mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="gmail-m_-2905676817824756122gmail-m_5956534896380797456moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
To unsubscribe, please send a mail to <a class="gmail-m_-2905676817824756122gmail-m_5956534896380797456moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:devel-unsubscribe@lists.sailfishos.org" target="_blank">devel-unsubscribe@lists.sailfishos.org</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div id="gmail-m_-2905676817824756122gmail-m_5956534896380797456smartTemplate4-template">
<p> </p>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list<br>
To unsubscribe, please send a mail to <a href="mailto:devel-unsubscribe@lists.sailfishos.org" target="_blank">devel-unsubscribe@lists.sailfishos.org</a></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="gmail-m_-2905676817824756122mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="gmail-m_-2905676817824756122moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
To unsubscribe, please send a mail to <a class="gmail-m_-2905676817824756122moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:devel-unsubscribe@lists.sailfishos.org" target="_blank">devel-unsubscribe@lists.sailfishos.org</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div id="gmail-m_-2905676817824756122smartTemplate4-template">
<p> </p>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list<br>
To unsubscribe, please send a mail to <a href="mailto:devel-unsubscribe@lists.sailfishos.org" target="_blank">devel-unsubscribe@lists.sailfishos.org</a></blockquote></div>