[SailfishDevel] Devel Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6
Jozef Macko
j.macko.sk at gmail.com
Wed Mar 7 04:51:35 UTC 2018
> Dietmar Schwertberger, if SailfishOS didnt give U a satisfaction, U can try this https://maruos.com/#/
Dňa 6. 3. 2018 o 22:45 užívateľ devel-request at lists.sailfishos.org napísal:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Linux desktop software on Sailfish? (Pekka Vuorela)
> 2. Re: hunspell (rinigus)
> 3. Re: keyboard development (Leif-Jöran Olsson)
> 4. Re: keyboard development (rinigus)
> 5. Re: Linux desktop software on Sailfish? (Dietmar Schwertberger)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2018 16:48:26 +0200
> From: Pekka Vuorela <pekka.vuorela at jolla.com>
> To: Sailfish OS Developers <devel at lists.sailfishos.org>
> Subject: Re: [SailfishDevel] Linux desktop software on Sailfish?
> Message-ID: <1520347706.8019.32.camel at jolla.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
>> On Thu, 2018-03-01 at 23:14 +0100, Dietmar Schwertberger wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> In the last days Planet Computers started shipping the Gemini PDA
>> which
>> has Android installed by default but features a Linux dual boot
>> option.
>> There will be an option to install Sailfish OS as the Linux OS.
>>
>> For most buyers the motivation to buy the device is not just Android
>> with a keyboard but the option to use it as a productivity device,
>> including office applications and development software.
>> Currently the only option for this usage scenario is Debian. Ubuntu
>> should follow soon.
>>
>> Is there a realistic option to have e.g. gtk and a Linux desktop on
>> Sailfish OS?
>> A Sailfish OS with Android compatibility and Linux productivity
>> applications would be the perfect OS for the Gemini PDA.
>
> Linux desktop and Sailfish OS are kind of mutually exclusive things in
> the sense the Sailfish provides a home screen, i.e. "desktop".
>
> Gkt+ applications could perhaps be possible, but not necessarily an API
> that is going to get official support. Also desktop applications and
> widget sets don't likely work nicely on a small mobile device as they
> have not been commonly developed with finger usability in mind.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 17:09:28 +0200
> From: rinigus <rinigus.git at gmail.com>
> To: Sailfish OS Developers <devel at lists.sailfishos.org>
> Subject: Re: [SailfishDevel] hunspell
> Message-ID:
> <CA+4hNMGh_w-2ysG2WZ0XajftRyuctz=sTcb-UHHWM+5gAXtGTA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Yes, I did and I followed the new standard by using git submodules.
> Packaging is somewhat different from the previous version in a sense that
> it adds static library in devel package. This would allow developers to
> choose whether to link statically or dynamically in response to the current
> Harbour rules.
>
> Rinigus
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 3:41 PM, Pekka Vuorela <pekka.vuorela at jolla.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> On Tue, 2018-02-27 at 15:35 +0200, rinigus wrote:
>>> For those who are interested in up-to-date hunspell, I have packaged
>>> it under https://github.com/rinigus/pkg-hunspell with the builds
>>> available at https://build.merproject.org/package/show/home:rinigus:k
>>> eyboard/hunspell .
>>>
>>> Packaging script is based on https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/huns
>>> pell with the further split of development and tools packages for
>>> hunspell. That allows to get hunspell as a static library and build
>>> against it.
>>>
>>> I wonder whether anyone has packaged more recent version of
>>>> hunspell than the one available at https://git.merproject.org/mer-c
>>>> ore/hunspell and on our devices?
>>>>
>>>> Also, it looks like mer repo contains source dump of hunspell. If I
>>>> remember other repos correctly, it seems to be the way for other
>>>> packages as well. Any reasons for preferring such model instead of
>>>> git submodules? Looks to be more difficult to update it to the
>>>> current version.
>>
>> Looks like you made a PR for the update. Nice, we'll look into that.
>>
>> For the record, some older packages are having source code dumps. Those
>> have been gradually migrated for git submodule setup for easier
>> maintenance and usage.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
>> To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscribe at lists.
>> sailfishos.org
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> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 17:51:40 +0100
> From: Leif-Jöran Olsson <ellefj at gmail.com>
> To: Sailfish OS Developers <devel at lists.sailfishos.org>, Mike Sheldon
> <mike at mikeasoft.com>
> Subject: Re: [SailfishDevel] keyboard development
> Message-ID: <c7d0e1b5-4d01-aeb4-15f8-9f11c86cce80 at gmail.com>
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>> Den 2018-03-06 kl. 12:59, skrev Mike Sheldon:
>> Hi Rinigus,
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 8:23 PM, rinigus <rinigus.git at gmail.com
>> <mailto:rinigus.git at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> As I mentioned in the mail, we have extended Presage with the new
>> language model that maybe of interest to your keyboard
>> implementation as well. Speedup is of the order of 10x, maybe more
>> in addition to the significant reduction on database size. We are
>> discussing also Unicode support by Presage to properly support
>> case-insensitive n-gram search, not via `tolower` as done now. It
>> will probably change the database format to implement properly, bu
> t
>> then should stabilize. If there is anyone from UBPorts interested
> in
>> joining Presage development - we would be happy to get any help :)
>>
>>
>> That's interesting, you might also be interested in taking a look at m
> y
>> (unfinished) Skeyer branch:
>>
>> https://code.launchpad.net/~michael-sheldon/ubuntu-keyboard/skeyer-pro
> totype
>>
>> That uses saidinesh's libskeyer to provide auto-correction (and
>> eventually swipe style input), this provides spatially aware correctio
> ns
>> (i.e. it knows that 'b' is next to 'n' on an English keyboard so would
>> suggest 'and' as a correction for 'abd' instead of Presage's predictio
> n
>> of 'abdicate'). I think the strongest approach would involve a
>> combination of the two, using Skeyer for correction and Presage for
>> prediction.
>
> Just a quick note that for presage the hunspell predictor provide
> basically the correction functionality. But I see no problem adding
> libskeyer as a predictor too in contrast to have them in another loose
> combination of predictor and corrector.
>
> ljo
>
>> Few general questions though:
>>
>> * If I want to test the keyboard, is there VirtualBox (or some oth
> er
>> similar) emulator for Ubuntu Touch / UBPorts?
>>
>>
>> As far as I'm aware there isn't a working emulator image, however you
>> can run the Ubuntu Keyboard on a standard desktop system as well; afte
> r
>> compiling and installing the plugin as normal and running maliit-serve
> r
>> you can start any QT app with the environment variable
>> 'QT_IM_MODULE=maliitphablet' to invoke the keyboard.
>>
>> * Do you have some mailing list or some other means where we could
>> discuss joint projects with UBPorts developers?
>>
>>
>> There's a pretty active Telegram group here: https://t.me/ubports (I'm
>> on there, but not very involved) and the UBPorts forums
>> here: https://forums.ubports.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> * If we would like to port UBPorts keyboard, would it mainly requi
> re
>> changes
>> in https://github.com/ubports/keyboard-component/tree/master/qml
>> <https://github.com/ubports/keyboard-component/tree/master/qml> ,
>> icons and schema. Or would you expect some other parts require
>> adaptation? Just an estimate would be fine at this stage.
>>
>>
>> From memory there shouldn't be too much that needs changing; most of t
> he
>> QML is standard QtQuick, there should only be a few things using the
>> Ubuntu Components that'll need replacing, e.g. the language menu and
>> anywhere that's using Ubuntu's grid units for sizing.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would expect that the keyboard performs its own tokenization to
>> split between the text on the left and the last word that needs
>> prediction. Later, when Presage is called, strings are put back
>> together and Presage is splitting it to words again. Which, in
>> addition to double effort, can be source of confusion if the split
>> to words doesn't match. From the brief look into the code with the
>> help of grep, it looks like tokens are split by spaces and few oth
> er
>> similar chars (\n) with the exception of plugins/ko. Do you happen
>> to have some API that could be used to plugin different tokenizati
> on
>> library, same Presage for example?
>>
>>
>> As far as I recall our tokenization was pretty simple, we basically ju
> st
>> allowed each plugin to define a list of characters to tokenize on (so
>> for example Chinese could tokenize on different characters from
>> English), it probably wouldn't be difficult to replace that with
>> tokenization performed by another library.
>>
>> Hope that helps :)
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> But before going into major porting of the keyboard, would be good
>> to know what Jolla's plans are regarding their keyboard. They shou
> ld
>> be back in the office now after a great time in Spain, hopefully w
> e
>> can hear back.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Rinigus
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Mike Sheldon <mike at mikeasoft.com
>> <mailto:mike at mikeasoft.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Rinigus,
>>
>> I've been out of the Jolla ecosystem for a while (since my pho
> ne
>> was lost a couple of years ago), so can't say anything much
>> about the Jolla keyboard; but I was the lead developer on the
>> Ubuntu Keyboard at Canonical so am happy to answer any specifi
> c
>> questions you have about that.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Mike
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 7:14 PM, rinigus <rinigus.git at gmail.co
> m
>> <mailto:rinigus.git at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a question regarding the longer term plans for
>> keyboard development in SFOS. Namely, @martonmiklos has
>> brought over Presage predictor to SFOS and already publish
> ed
>> keyboard using this library. I think its a great developme
> nt
>> and together with @ljo we have been helping @martonmiklos
> to
>> make this plugin better. Please note that below, I speak f
> or
>> myself and I haven't checked whether these questions even
>> make sense with others.
>>
>> At present, the released plugin has been enhanced by makin
> g
>> it fast through using different language model storage/que
> ry
>> mechanism, using relatively small size of n-gram database
>> (English 5MB, Estonian 10MB), made asynchronous to ensure
>> that the user's input is not lagging behind, and just
>> extended with Hunspell speller as an additional "predictor
> ".
>> All is in the testing / bugfixing stage. In longer
>> term, with the right effort, we could get very well workin
> g
>> open-source predictive engine and keyboard.
>>
>> I am trying to understand how the pieces fall together and
> I
>> am not sure 100% whether I do. I can see that SFOS uses
>> proprietary jolla-keyboard and the developed Presage input
>> handler extends it. Which is fine, but maybe we could go
>> deeper and do better.
>>
>> From looking around, Maliit has adopted keyboard developed
>> by Ubuntu Touch as a reference, corresponding Maliit
>> repo https://github.com/maliit/keyboard
>> <https://github.com/maliit/keyboard> . In addition to
>> UBPorts, the same keyboard is used by LuneOS. This design
>> already supports Presage and Hunspell, also done in
>> asynchronous manner as we are testing for SFOS now. It has
>> support for quite a few number of languages, pinyin, and
>> emoji. I do not know how this design compares to the
>> internals of jolla-keyboard and maybe someone can share
>> their knowledge regarding it. I would expect that it was
>> developed on the top of Maliit available at the time of J1
>> and kept as it is after that.
>>
>> Now, I do wonder what is the long term plan with the
>> keyboard development? From the outside of Jolla, it seems
> to
>> me that it would be wise to join forces with the others an
> d
>> develop this component together. Each OS in question has
>> their own styling, but that seems to be possible to apply
> on
>> top.
>>
>> Its not trivial to compile the latest Maliit on SFOS (they
>> switched to CMake based builds and few cmake configs are
>> missing in SFOS right now), but I expect that its possible
>> with some effort. Just don't want to spend too much time i
> f
>> it's gonna be without any use.
>>
>> So, to summarize, I would like to hear what's an opinion o
> n
>> the raised issues by those who know. Would be great to kno
> w
>> plans and comparison of jolla-keyboard with the current
>> Maliit UBPorts/LuneOS versions.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Rinigus
>>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 22:41:05 +0200
> From: rinigus <rinigus.git at gmail.com>
> To: Sailfish OS Developers <devel at lists.sailfishos.org>, Mike Sheldon
> <mike at mikeasoft.com>
> Subject: Re: [SailfishDevel] keyboard development
> Message-ID:
> <CA+4hNMEKGjyomjkQtSohDe=XMa26W9V8DC_4GJqxgs6=MwoyfA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>>
>>
>> That's interesting, you might also be interested in taking a look at my
>> (unfinished) Skeyer branch:
>>
>> https://code.launchpad.net/~michael-sheldon/ubuntu-keyboard/
>> skeyer-prototype
>>
>> That uses saidinesh's libskeyer to provide auto-correction (and eventually
>> swipe style input), this provides spatially aware corrections (i.e. it
>> knows that 'b' is next to 'n' on an English keyboard so would suggest 'and'
>> as a correction for 'abd' instead of Presage's prediction of 'abdicate'). I
>> think the strongest approach would involve a combination of the two, using
>> Skeyer for correction and Presage for prediction.
>>
>
> Interesting, we'll surely think about it. On SFOS, we have OKboard that has
> implementation of swipe style input, but its probably good to think about
> using keyboard-aware correction. However, as @ljo described, we don't have
> such issue with `abd` in the presage version that has hunspell added as a
> dictionary predictor. It would depend on corpora used for training, but in
> our case we get "bad", "and", "abd" as the three first suggestions.
>
> Mike, thanks for the tips regarding the keyboard internals, they are very
> helpful. I'll register at UBPorts forums to get into some discussions (not
> using telegram).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rinigus
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 22:43:16 +0100
> From: Dietmar Schwertberger <maillist at schwertberger.de>
> To: devel at lists.sailfishos.org
> Subject: Re: [SailfishDevel] Linux desktop software on Sailfish?
> Message-ID: <993fd2fc-0d3f-b3d6-f249-7f6681d11eeb at schwertberger.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>> On 3/6/2018 3:48 PM, Pekka Vuorela wrote:
>> Linux desktop and Sailfish OS are kind of mutually exclusive things in
>> the sense the Sailfish provides a home screen, i.e. "desktop".
>>
>> Gkt+ applications could perhaps be possible, but not necessarily an API
>> that is going to get official support. Also desktop applications and
>> widget sets don't likely work nicely on a small mobile device as they
>> have not been commonly developed with finger usability in mind.
>
> Sure, but with a device like the Gemini PDA that is not really an issue
> as it has a keyboard and also a mouse can be connected. So, keyboard
> control can be used for most things, the screen size is not reduced by a
> on-screen keyboard and for some applications where one really needs fine
> control, a mouse can be connected. Also, external monitor and keyboard
> may be connnected, so usage scenarios like Windows Continuum, Ubuntu
> Convergence or Samsung DeX would be possible without additional effort.
> On Maemo, the standard Qt widgets were perfectly integrated. With
> Sailfish OS this is not gonna happen. That's clear, but not an issue
> here as it would require adaption per application.
> It would be sufficient to be able to build e.g. gtk applications and
> start them full-screen. Things like drag&drop between windows would
> obviously not work. The perfect solution would be a desktop running as
> another full-screen showing all applications that are not full-screen.
>
> Maemo had some application like word processor or spreadsheet. With
> keyboard and stylus they were really usable. The keyboard contributed to
> the usability more than the stylus. Without keyboard and stylus there's
> no useful scenario...
>
> Regards,
>
> Dietmar
>
>
>
>
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> End of Devel Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6
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